Grammy Gossip:Madonna vs. Mariah

[Karma]

by: Kat Gantis
Madonna vs. Mariah; Cruise Swears by Kanye

"What's the difference between a pop star and a terrorist? You can negotiate with a terrorist." That's Madonna, trying but failing to find the funny in the latest issue of Harper's Bazaar. But is her diva-centric joke hitting a little too close to home with Mariah Carey?

The New York Daily News reports Mimi is miffed that the erstwhile Esther was given the coveted opening performance slot at Wednesday's Grammy Awards. Turns out Mariah, whose career resurrection culminated in eight nominations, "really wanted to open the show with her choir-backed rendition of 'We Belong Together,'" a source tells the paper.

But Madonna, who knows a thing or two about getting her own way, reportedly gave Grammy producers an ultimatum: Either she be given the primo lead-in or she'd take a powder on the proceedings.

The producers caved, says the paper, because of their belief her boogie-shaking "Confessions on a Dancefloor" collaboration with the Gorillaz would bring in ratings.

"The war between Madonna and Mariah has been going on for years," tattles a mole. "Mariah was also steaming last summer when Madonna stole the show at Live 8."

Madonna, meanwhile, tells Harper's she's grown as a person since becoming Mrs. Guy Ritchie. "You become less impulsive, less reckless, less careless, less selfish," says the Big M, who describes herself as "strong-willed" and "ambitious." "In those respects, I've changed a lot ..."

In other Grammy gossip, Tom Cruise surgically removed himself from Katie Holmes' side long enough to make the scene solo at Kanye West's pre-award show performance in L.A. Monday night, reports MTV.

No, Tom hasn't developed a sudden taste for hip-hop. Turns out the meeting of the massive egos was more business than pleasure: West has been hired to reinterpret the theme song for "Mission: Impossible III."

The rapper must be happy with his new gig, because he made sure to give Tom a shout-out from the stage. The toothy future baby daddy was -- get this -- "a little shy" when the spotlight hit him, but he did manage to overcome his uncharacteristic bashfulness to smile and wave to the crowd.

Cruise, apparently as sick as we are of the word "amazing," instead described the experience with such exclamations as "Wow!" "Damn" and "Un-[bleeping]-believable."

The same could be said for a report in Star, which claims the I-do-my-own-stunts-asserting A-lister scaled a rope and climbed onto a balcony to get a better view of the stage.

"It was completely bizarre -- it reminded me of his crazy display on 'Oprah' when he jumped up and down on her couch," a bystander tells the tab.

No word on the expectant Katie's whereabouts, but we're gonna go out on a limb and say she was busy strapping herself into an uncomfortable unitard-like contraption in preparation for her belly-baring morning coffee run.

Speaking of Kanye, not everyone is as big a fan as Cruise. Killers frontman Brandon Flowers snips to Rolling Stone that the egomaniacal musician "makes me ill. I wanted to love him so much when he first came out. He has this sweet voice, and there's a cuteness to it. And then you see him in interviews and he's like a lion. It just ruined the whole package for me."

 

[Foxfire]

See, this is why I NEVER liked Mariah! She seems so selfish, snotty, and rather skanky. I think her "break down" was a publicity stunt to boost her new album. I think people were tiring of her music so she needed an excuse to reinvent herself. Where as Madonna is completely changing her style and her music. She never needed drugs or alcohol to do it. The woman was brilliant enough to think it through for herself.

I'd love to see Madonna have a go at Mariah. I'm not saying Mariah isn't talented but I don't see all the hype about her. Madonna I can see and I'm glad the Material girl gave an ultimatum - the producers would be ignorant to turn her down. I myself did not see the performance of Madonna but I was told she "still looks great at her age." If it weren't for Madonna none of these prissy pop stars would know how to sell music.

As for Tom Cruise - what can I say about him? He's still cute but he robbed the cradle with Katie Holmes lol. Let's hope he says faithful to her now that they have a baby together.

Kanye is still hot in the business and I respect him - especially after that car accident of his back in I think 2001/02? I think he'll strive for bigger and better things. He reminds me of a P. Diddy in a way. Its great to see talent in the business.

 

[Rampage]

I like Madonna OK, but Mariah is actually much more vocally talented. She is classically trained and has a seven-octave voice. Madonna is the queen of publicity, but Mariah is actually more substance.

Also, Kanye rocks!!!

 

[Karma]

I like Madonna OK, but Mariah is actually much more vocally talented. She is classically trained and has a seven-octave voice. Madonna is the queen of publicity, but Mariah is actually more substance.

Also, Kanye rocks!!!

Madonna herself has admitted she "knows she's not the best singer" but UNLIKE Mariah, Madonna has remained relevant for over 20 years in the industry. Billboard Music announced that she, Missy Elliot, Queen Latifah (and one other...i forget) are the four most powerfull women in the industry.

so yes Mariah DOES have the talent (there's no denying that...but then again Minnie Ripperton blazed the trail for the vocal stunts that Mariah pulls) ..but without the marketing JUGGERNAUT launched by Island Def Jam MONTHS BEFORE the initial release of her hit come back album. "The emancipation of Mimi" ..who KNOWS what wouldve happened? LA Reid put ALOT of effort into promoting Mariah and Jermaine Dupree takes the credit for most of the producing of that album.

Madonna can sing AND DANCE (which Mariah clearly cannot do lol) and Madonna is DEFINATELY the better entertainer ...she puts concerts like few other female artists (or even males for that matter) can. Madonna and Mariah have LONG been rivals for many reasons. Mariah holds the record for most consecutive number 1 singles of any female artist....and MADONNA is RIGHT BEHIND HER at number 2.

 

[Karma]

forgot to add

Madonna also has greater control over her career. She was NEVER fired or "Bought out" of her contract, and She's co produced some of the most successfull albums in her catalog AND written many of the hit records or pubished them through her company "Webo girl Inc." Madonna also launched one of the top 3 artist owned labels in the country , "Marverick". Mariah's label, had MINOR success with the detroit based group "7 Mile" before it CAVED due to lack of interest and credibility.

 

[Rampage]

I will be the first to praise Madonna in terms of her generating popularity and growing in the industry. She has come a long way from being theoriginal pop star to being an extremely polished entertainer. It must be noted, however, that Madonna could not dance at first (she learned, quite well in fact) and that although Madonna has the longevity and the marketing savvy, Mariah has the vocal talent. I also think that Mariah has time on her side, one can only hope she no longer allows controlling men to screw with her career.
So I agree whole heartedly that Madonna gets the lifetime achievement nod, but its Mariah who's been putting out the hits, especially in the last 10 years.

 

[Karma]

I will be the first to praise Madonna in terms of her generating popularity and growing in the industry. She has come a long way from being theoriginal pop star to being an extremely polished entertainer. It must be noted, however, that Madonna could not dance at first (she learned, quite well in fact) and that although Madonna has the longevity and the marketing savvy, Mariah has the vocal talent. I also think that Mariah has time on her side, one can only hope she no longer allows controlling men to screw with her career.
So I agree whole heartedly that Madonna gets the lifetime achievement nod, but its Mariah who's been putting out the hits, especially in the last 10 years.

DANCING is Madonna's ROOTS. madonna graduated highschool early and went to college (University of Michigan) on a dance scholarship...that was what she wanted to be more than ANYTHING and during her early years in New York she joined the famed and respectedAlvin Ivley (did i spell that right) dance troupe along with studying under a direct disciple dance legend. of Pearl Lange.

and you're right Mariah blew up during the 90's but Madonna was ALREADY Big...and while Mariah really upped her appeal in 1997 with the grittier, more danceable, "hip hop" influenced album "Butterfly", in 1998 Madonna took it to a whole new level with "Ray of light". No one could touch her...not even TLC and Britney Spears who were supposed to have eclipsed Madonna. She cleaned up at the VMAs (and holds the record for being the winner of the MOST VMA's...more than any other artist in the history of the show) and she also racked in a slew of Grammys for Ray of Light that year. While Ray of light spawned six singles (four of which were number 1s) and remained in heavy rotation through 1999....She managed to carry her relevance into the 21rst century with the smash hit album "Music" (2001) right around the time poor Mariah had her monumental breakdown both professionally and personally.

I cant deny that Mariah DOES have a better voice..but her talent is often over shadowed by other things that shouldnt even be an issue, where as Madonna has DEFTLY been able to use attention (both good and bad) to boost her popularity, command interest and carry her career on for more than two decades. her CURRENT album is a smash..it went to the top of the charts and its hot right now...so why SHOULDNT the producers of the Grammys have given the opening number to Madonna? She opened the show in 2001 with massive success and her performances of "Ray of light" and "Nothing really matters" at the 1999 Grammys were the talk of the town in all the magazines and tv news magazines.

I'm GLAD Mariah came back with this latest album...but she really needs to stop hating on Madonna. The two should join forces on a song sometime..or collaborate. its just like this unpsoken tension between Madonna and Janet. EVERYONE wanted them to hook up for something in the late 80's/ early 90's when they were neck and neck for media presence and hit making....but the diva antics and unspoken hostlity (that was highlighted on a few select occasions) seemed to keep them from ever being able to come together.

 

[Mat]

This isn't even a contest. Madonna is better looking, makes better music, is a better dancer, has sold more albums - she means more than Mariah Carey. Plus, it's not like she just wanted to perform first alone. She had the Gorillaz there, too. Mariah would have had the opening act all about her, no doubt.

 

[Rampage]

In my opinion, Madonna is NOT better looking (unless you're in to old but good--Mariah is voluptuous and stunning), makes good music but not necessarily better music, is a far inferior singer but far superior dancer, and has sold more albums due primarily to a nearly 10 year head start. What Madonna has over Mariah is business savvy and smarts. I actually am a Madonna fan. Anyone who can carve a place out in that cutthroat industry deserves respect, but I have always been disappointed with her competitive distate for any other female. Any time there is another talented female solo artist who is big there is this "tension" between her and Madonna. The fact that Madonna is always involved says to me that she wants to be the SOLE big ticket woman, bigger than all of the others. That she cannot allow others to ever have the spotlight for fear that it won't come back to her is something that I find disappointing. So while I can easily concede that Madonna is bigger than Mariah or any other female entertainer, I do not necessarily think that's good for female entertainers in general. Because whether her music merits it or not (and this year it clearly did not, Mariah has many more hits), she will always move to undercut the spotlight of other female entertainers, taking a spotlight that should not in this case have been hers.

 

[mrfolson]

Mariah an Madonna are both very talented, and I can very well say that Madonna is a pinch away from being legendary with all her success. Mariah is a very talented singtress, but her downfall is she worry too much about her competition. Hell, it wasn't long ago when she nearly had or did have a nervous breakdown because of J-lo. See, thats the difference between Big M an Mimi, Big M put the fear in her competitors.

 

[Arkaine]

You can boil the Madonna/Mariah battle down to a few simple sentences:

While talented, Mariah is batshit insane. While not the best singer there has yet to be a female entertainer who can surpass Madonna.

Mariah's songs past, what? 1996? Can 90% be tagged under the terms: Generic, safe, and genre-bound.

 

[Clara Oswald]

And covers

 

[Karma]

You can boil the Madonna/Mariah battle down to a few simple sentences:

While talented, Mariah is batshit insane. While not the best singer there has yet to be a female entertainer who can surpass Madonna.

Mariah's songs past, what? 1996? Can 90% be tagged under the terms: Generic, safe, and genre-bound.

one thing i will say about Mariah is that when she broke away from Tommy Mottolla in 1996 (the ceo of Sony and her one time husband who MADE her what she was up till that time) her next album "Butterfly" was THE SHIT! it was HOT, sexy, gritty and it was her most daring yet at the time..and SINCE that time in light of her follow ups up till "Emancipation of Mimi".

"Butterfly" is probably my favorite Mariah album...with "Honey" being my all time favorite Mariah song ("Shake it off' is my number two fav lol)

I'm not suggesting Mariah is BETTER than Madonna by any means as a female entertainer because you hit the nail on the head. NO other woman can surpass Madonna as an overall female entertainer. Mariah's ego shows through whether she wants to admit it or not

 

[Arkaine]

one thing i will say about Mariah is that when she broke away from Tommy Mottolla in 1996 (the ceo of Sony and her one time husband who MADE her what she was up till that time) her next album "Butterfly" was THE SHIT! it was HOT, sexy, gritty and it was her most daring yet at the time..and SINCE that time in light of her follow ups up till "Emancipation of Mimi".

"Butterfly" is probably my favorite Mariah album...with "Honey" being my all time favorite Mariah song ("Shake it off' is my number two fav lol)

I'm not suggesting Mariah is BETTER than Madonna by any means as a female entertainer because you hit the nail on the head. NO other woman can surpass Madonna as an overall female entertainer. Mariah's ego shows through whether she wants to admit it or not

I won't disagree that Mariah has talent, and there will always be a person who "grabs" a certain feeling/mood of a year and is able to capture it in music. One of my favourite artists, Alanis Morissette, was able to do it with her album Jagged Little Pill. It was new, gritty, and captured the spirit that many felt disenchanted after the grunge-laden era of the 90's. Other bands who captured such feelings have been Nirvana, and, hell, even Britney Spears (who had *everyone* eatting out of her hand after her debut album).

Being fans of the three above, a huge fan of Alanis (I still prefer her music over Madonna's, but can understand and respect why Madonna is more famous -- despite Jagged Little Pill outselling, I believe, any one of Madonna's own albums), I can see why they haven't retained their success. Nirvana got cut short in the grunge prime, but couldn't have lasted much longer, however the death of Kurt Cobain will forever cement songs such as Smells Like Teen Spirit, and (my personal favourite) Heart-Shaped Box, as themes for the 90's youth. You can't think of the former without connotions of flanel and converse suddenly invading your mind. Alanis lost her success after Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, an album which I adored but could understand the lack of commercial appeal. A shame because some songs (such as "Joining You", "Unsent", and "So Pure") were very much lyrical pinnacles. She never recovered from that despite releasing, IMHO, my favourite of her albums (though it wasn't a "real" album, so to speak) Feast on Scraps. And, of course, Britney's pop empire had to fall with her image.

These all had success in their own rights. They all captivated an audience for a certain amount of time. Mariah, I'm sure, did the same.

However, it takes more than one album to make someone successful and Divatastic as Mariah and, despite her vocal prowess, the fact remains she's back to doing generic R&B which any number of current R&B stars could mimic. A good way, IMHO, of analyzing if they deserve the recognition for their current success is: If another R&B singer (specifically R&B) had sang the latest Mariah songs, would they have been as successful? In my humble opinion yes, they would have.. maybe even more successful. If another pop singer came out with Confessions on the Dancefloor would it have? I doubt it.. I can't think of a singer with the same charisma that was needed for songs such as "Hung Up" and "Sorry".

So, after that long-winded rant, what I'm trying to say is.. Mariah, while talented and currently successful is still just a stone's throw away from another career dip. Madonna, while she may have been unsuccessful with American Life, still is far more stable.

 

[Karma]

Alanis' "Jagged little Pill" beat out Mariah and gave Alanis the "it girl" status at the 1996 grammys but that album did NOT outside Like a Prayer or Ray of Light. Madonna retains the status of the female musical artist having sold the MOST units (total albums in her whole catalogue) in the world.

you cant compare Alanis to Mariah or Madonna because Alanis doesnt cross musical genres the way Madonna has (or Mariah to a lesser extent). Madonna has successfully tried her hand at: pop, trip hop (a dreamy/trippy version of hip hop), techno/electronica, r&b and house music. Mariah has a fan base both in the "adult contemporary" (the lite, "generic" sound you refer to) and the r&b genre.

Alanis' "supposed former infuatiation junkie" failed to gain the same commercial success of Jagged little pill, although it was critically acclaimed ( it was named by entertainment weekly as one of the albums with the "UGLIEST" title ever lol). and while Madonna's "American Life' "bombed" as far as her standard of sales go...it STILL gained multi platinum status (2x) , she STILL reached number one on the b illboard charts with it (and knocked 50 cent off the top, which at the time NO ONE ELSE could do) ... everyone, including Madonna admits the album was too "politically charged" and she was angry when she made it. she did just what her critics said she needed to do....she got back to "making people want to dance". thats how she got STARTED in the late 70's-early 80's. Madonna knows how to take something and play it up and make it work for her the way no one else can. she's savvy in her marketing skill and that makes up for whatever vocal chops she lacks. HOWEVER...her STRONGEST vocals can be heard on the Evita sound track or Ray of Light (coming off the vocal training she had for Evita). there was this BELL like clarity to her voice, a strength that had not been there before and she was able to use it to sing epic songs on evita and club hopping hits on ray of light. it was fabulous.


Mariah, has had some POWERFULL hit singles that no one else could successfully cover...."vision of love", "emotions", "dream lover", "honey" "one sweet day" (featuring boyz to men) and a few others. like i said..the "lite" sound you referr to was MAINLY the working of her husband/producer tommy motolla. when she broke out from under him...in 1997 "butterfly" became a smash for her because it was a MAJOR departure from that sound....but then she started becoming OVER exposed on her next album "Rainbow" trying too hard and then she just BOMBED with the "Glitter" soundtrack. although to be fair...she really was JUST AHEAD of the trend to return to the "80's sound" with that sound track because a couple years later..everybody and their momma was either sampling beats, melodies and hooks from hip hop/rap/pop in the 80's or just taking that general sound and mixing it in with their own material so in THAT regard...Mariah was ahead of what is now another standard trend.

 

[Arkaine]

I wasn't comparing Alanis to Madonna (although I do personally prefer her as I believe, lyrically, I haven't found an artist to match her) I was simply saying that Mariah's success is destined, in my humble opinion, to wax and wane like many others, while Madonna remains constant.