Illegal Immigration

[ZorCrow]

Illegal Aliens, a threat to America . .


Now I am not a novice in this Area, some of you know what I do for a living and what I am trained on as a professional. I know ILLEGAL ALIENS . .

I was coming from the Federal Court House in Detroit on Monday afternoon when I saw the crowd of thousands of Hispanics chanting, "Si Se Puede" (Yes we can) in hopes of not getting deported back to their respective countries.

There are approximately 8-20 million illegal aliens in the United States. A vast majority come from Mexico and Central America, they come through our porous south western border, they come and use our resources.

1. The Illegal aliens have ruined health care along the border, hospitals are overwhelmed treating illegal aliens and not receiving any financial compensation for them.

2. Crime, 29% of folks in Federal Prisons are illegal Aliens . . that is almost 1 out of 3 . .

3. Illegal Alien gangs have taken over prisons in California and Arizona,
even the guards are scared of these entities.

4. with so many living here, not paying taxes, but getting Medicare, getting Medicaid they come from a poor nation to live in America easily.

5. Many refuse to speak English.

This nation is under attack, under invasion, we have to do something about the illegal aliens. Here are my suggestions

1. Deport them . .if they are here in violation of US law send them back to their countries and let them wait in line to come to U.S.

2. Imprison employers who hire illegal aliens or fine them heavy.
$25,000.00 fine per illegal alien for first offense.

3. Secure the South Western Border, make it secure, turn it into an area of real hard defenses, of walls, gun towers and helicopter controls.

4. Make it a felony to be an illegal alien in the united states, and make it a felony to assist an illegal alien in the United States.

What are you thoughts, U.S. CITIZENS only, on what should be done about illegal aliens?

 

[Rampage]

I am actually in agreement on most of what you said just now. The problem of illegal aliens in this country is indeed ridiculous. However, I would shift the punishments you lay out for this and I would strengthen the border, but no gun towers. This is America, not Germany.

1) I would make it a felony to knowingly hire an illegal or to assist in hiding or bringing one here, but not a felony to simply be an illegal alien. Jail is not the answer for these people. The answer is to dry up the lure that brings them here, and to send illegals back home.

2) I woul strengthen the penalty of hiring illegal aliens to include some mandatory jail time. The problem with fines is that in many instances the money saved over hiring an American would overshadow the fine you just proposed. But no one likes jail.

3) I would send out the warning now to the affluent in America that hiring illegals to do housework or anything for that matter to save a few bucks will cost them JAIL time and a fine. That would help dry up the source.

4) I would only allow public services access for those who are in this country legally. If you cannot prove legal residence here then no water, no sewer, no school, no Medicaid.

5) I would establish limited quotas for all countries, including Western Europe. It is a shame that we only worry when black or brown people want in. The quota system should be more humane and reflect a more open-minded society.

6) Lastly, if you are a convicted illehgal alien, you can NEVER gain legal residence or citizenship to this country.

 

[Karma]

this belongs in Roundtable..so I'm moving it there please feel free to continue on.

 

[Rampage]

Thank you ma'am. I good to "see" you again. (This concludes the gratuitous suck-up portion of this thread...)

 

[Black Widow]

I agree that illegal aliens should be dealt with and I'm AWARE that in a lot of ways they hurt our country.

Now let me tell you something else:

What you're suggesting is no small feat... like you said, Crow, 8 to 20 MILLION illegals. thats a big spread, and I'm estimating its much closer to the 20 million mark. To deport or arrest that many people all at once would be both impossible and improbable.

I live 20 minutes from Houston, Tx.... one of the biggest cities in America... and I'm willing to bet that 1, maybe two MILLION of the people who live here are here ILLEGALLY. They cut our grass, they remodel our homes, clean our homes, and basically do all the jobs that WE are willing to pay 20 bucks a month to have done so that we don't have to. MOST of these people are just trying to live, trying to work for the money to survive and feed their families. MOST of these people are HARDWORKING individuals who couldn't or didnt know how to get 'legalized'.

We've got TOO MANY Americans in prision, we don't need foreigners in our prision system too. If they break US law, DEPORT them.

If you deported ALL the illegals in Houston, I gaurentee our Space City would come to a screeching halt. Maybe we need to make it easier to become legal... the BIG problem is that we've become too reliant on illegals to do our dirty work to simply get rid of them.

And the problem with imprisioning people who knowingly hire illegal aliens? It's too easy to say 'I didnt know'. How can you PROVE they knew?

It is a shame that we only worry when black or brown people want in. The quota system should be more humane and reflect a more open-minded society.

No, I don't think so.... you come down to Houston for a day.... you'll think you're already in Mexico.... mexicans[illegal or not] are the MAJORITY when you start getting this close to the border. Its not just black illegals that are under heat right now.... illegal immigration is bigger HERE than you can know... and its all about the mexicans here.

I agree we need to beef up security at the borders... be more firm, 'walk softly and carry a big stick', but honestly Crow, GUN TOWERS? That's a little extreme.

Limit quotas? that sounds like a good idea in theory... but what happens when you reach the quota? Then, by default, we have illegals coming in. Remember 'give me your tired, your hungry, your poor'? It's not 'give me two hundred of your tired, your hungry, your poor, and then just sit tight till next year.' America is the land of opportunity, and for most of these people, its the land of salvation. If we've got too many illegals.... then we need to find out WHY that is and we need to FIX it.

 

[ZorCrow]

TITANIA . . .you are correct in that as Mike Medved has said we have to do something practical and probable to fix this problem. Besides my opening rabble you pointed out something, that there must be real solutions it would take Draconian means to deport 20 million folks and our nation doesn't have the stomach to do such a thing.

Thinking about it seriously, and thinking about it practially here are my ideas for solutions.

1. We need to find out who these 20 million folks are, they just can't get amnesty for the sake of being here, that means if they have criminal records and they are living on public assistance they need to be deported but the vast majority who aren't, they can be given some sort of working program to help the exediently gain legal status.

2. The Criminal Aliens need to go, period and need to stay out.

3. We need a national I.D. the only thing we have close to a national i.d. is a U.S. passport outside of that we are left with poor excuses for identification drivers license and social security cards can be easily forged.

4. That southern border needs to be turned into a DMZ, gun towers,
patrols with force, walls, fences, technolgy and force, if w don't turn all those 2,000 miles into a DMZ we are doing nothing, as you said more will just keep coming.

5. Make it MANDATORY for all new Aliens to learn english and speak it profeciently,
they must have and must learn the english language.

6. If they join a gang they are automatically deportable . .

7. Employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens are fined and the employers do know, you start locking a couple up and putting them in jail believe me they will know . .
Jail time changes folks.

 

[Karma]

firstly i would like to say that it is NOT A RIGHT to just cross a border and start working in another country. We do not HAVE to have our borders open to any and everyone just because THEY think we should.

i think SOMETHING needs to be done but i dont think it should be as simple and as severe as forcing "all illegal immigrants" out of the country. I think those who have been here for at least 10 years and have been WORKING all that time should be given some consideration. make them pay a fee, get a green card , learn english and THEN consider giving them full citizenship.

i think deportation should be exacted immediately for those who are participating in the sex trade, drug trafficing, gangs etc..THAT is where the crackdown should come in.

this is something that can be looked at from alot of angles i'm sure but i was one of those people who felt that the united states should close its borders after 9/11.

 

[Osiris]

Im still trying to figure out how people can protest and try to change a political process they are not even a part of?

 

[Karma]

and among those who ARE naturalized citizens its funny how so many people came out for THIS issue but they wont come out to VOTE (those who are elligible to vote)...and then they wonder why we have the president we have..

 

[Osiris]

and among those who ARE naturalized citizens its funny how so many people came out for THIS issue but they wont come out to VOTE (those who are elligible to vote)...and then they wonder why we have the president we have..

The most truth I have read today!

 

[Cereal_Killer]

Personally I think that this issue is pointless. If they are in this country illegally they should be deported. I'm not sure there is anything else I can add after Zorcrow's facts about illegal immigration. I know one fact is that a good portion of the money they earn, they send back to Mexico, TAX FREE!!! So that way their families can come over here the legal way.


I was in Southern California when these "protests" broke out in the schools. It seemed that most of the students were blindly ignorant of what the legislation was proposing. Most feared that their parents were going to be deported. These were teenagers in school, so they must have been citizens, which means they were born here. So if that is true and they weren't just being retards and their parents were illegal, then they had been in this country for at least 14-15 years ILLEGALLY. If you're in a country for that long and you don't think about becoming a legal citizen, then you deserve to be deported.

Another rant I have, if you're going to protest about illegal aliens being deported, don't wave around a f'cking Mexican flag. All that says to me is, "Hey, I want to go back to Mexico." Wave an American flag, because in the end, it's America that decides to keep your dumbasses.

But maybe I'm judging illegal immigrants too hard, maybe getting a visa or green card is just too damn hard or too damn expensive. But I think citizenship is something that should be EARNED and not given away.

 

[Karma]

These were teenagers in school, so they must have been citizens, which means they were born here. So if that is true and they weren't just being retards and their parents were illegal, then they had been in this country for at least 14-15 years ILLEGALLY. If you're in a country for that long and you don't think about becoming a legal citizen, then you deserve to be deported.

you DO have a point there. i must agree with that.

Another rant I have, if you're going to protest about illegal aliens being deported, don't wave around a f'cking Mexican flag. All that says to me is, "Hey, I want to go back to Mexico." Wave an American flag, because in the end, it's America that decides to keep your dumbasses.

LMAO :haha: i could see this being said on a night time talk show...but it makes perfect sense LOL!

But maybe I'm judging illegal immigrants too hard, maybe getting a visa or green card is just too damn hard or too damn expensive. But I think citizenship is something that should be EARNED and not given away.

i know when i was looking into moving to canada after Bush won the second election (yes i was SERIOUSLY looking into that...i'm only 45 minutes from the border crossing after all lol) the total costs for everything involved with gaining citizenship in canada were rather expensive PLUS the other requirements. you'd really have to have this planned out ahead of time and pretty much get rid of anything you had in america before coming over. so in regards to the PROCESS...i can see why it might be intimidating....and bearing in mind that decades (even a couple centuries) ago...our fore fathers were ALSO immigrants...by todays standards...they'd be ILLEGAL immigrants ..and given all the diseaseas and such that were brought...they'd probably have been deported as well. (just something else to consider).

 

[Cereal_Killer]

i know when i was looking into moving to canada after Bush won the second election (yes i was SERIOUSLY looking into that...i'm only 45 minutes from the border crossing after all lol).

Sweet, I was thinking damn near the same thing. Wanna meet up in Ottawa. <<Wink, wink>>

 

[DonDaddyD]

Idon't know if this is the case 'over there' or if it has been touched upon but if someone is found over here illegally unless they have a passport or some documented proof of their original country England can't deport them because the Country they would be returning to won't accept them.

 

[Lethal]

It seems like immigrants are accepted as long as they meet the correct "color" requierments.

 

[Cereal_Killer]

I accept ALL immigrants that come to this country legally, regardless of race or religion. I HAVE a problem with people that flood into our country illegally. America is our home. Now if somebody broke into your house and moved their stuff into one of your rooms, then refused to pay rent, tell me you wouldn't be a little pissed off.

 

[Karma]

on a related note: http://www.screen-gems.net/showthread.php?p=16954#post16954

reactions/thoughts/comments would be appreciated here as well.

 

[Anchovy]

I accept ALL immigrants that come to this country legally, regardless of race or religion. I HAVE a problem with people that flood into our country illegally. America is our home. Now if somebody broke into your house and moved their stuff into one of your rooms, then refused to pay rent, tell me you wouldn't be a little pissed off.

Ok, before I say what I've got to say...DO you listen to GLenn Beck?!?!?!!? That is his favorite analogy! ANyway...

I've got to say I'm closest to agreeing with 'Binder. We absolutely should strengthen the border to keep out criminals. But talking about deporting people who have been here for years, working, not living off the largess of Uncle Sam is unfair and could absolutely hurt the economy. Not to mention deporting anybody is expensive. I think that if someone can prove that they've been her...oh say, ten years or more and have been working most of that time, we should open doors towards citizenship for those people.

 

[Cereal_Killer]

Ok, before I say what I've got to say...DO you listen to GLenn Beck?!?!?!!? That is his favorite analogy! ANyway...

Never heard of Glenn Beck. I thought I was being orginal, damn.

I've got to say I'm closest to agreeing with 'Binder. We absolutely should strengthen the border to keep out criminals. But talking about deporting people who have been here for years, working, not living off the largess of Uncle Sam is unfair and could absolutely hurt the economy. Not to mention deporting anybody is expensive. I think that if someone can prove that they've been her...oh say, ten years or more and have been working most of that time, we should open doors towards citizenship for those people.

The doors are open for citizenship, as far as I know, these people just need to take a step through the door.

 

[ZorCrow]

Post subject:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/109/house/1/votes/661/


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:1:./temp/~c109Xtiyg9::


Schultz,

I like the legislation. Something has to be done. What I am talking about and many others is the harsh reality of securing our borders. That's not that difficult to understand nor is it asinine to think that those who want a secure border where folks can't walk into the United States at will, are bigots or "don't understand the issues."

I understand the issues, way before these "rallies" took place. The facts are that we have a segment of the population that according to our sovereign laws (8 USC 1227) should not be here. A vast majority of these people are from Latin nations (not all) and a majority of them are from Mexico.

The reality is we have people who live off of our social services who are costing us money, we have a criminal population that is increasing, and we have a culture of people who feel "entitled." Think about it, many of the folks I know who worked for the Border Patrol who lived along the border will tell you the following facts:

1. Our security is a joke

2. The Mexicans don't want to speak our learn English

3. The people flood our hospitals with kids that by birth are u.s. citizens.

4. They use up hospital costs they don't pay

5. They kill animals, and leave waste, dirty clothes and trash behind.

6. They break in houses and still food.

7. Drugs and Criminals cross through it with ease.

8. It's already been taken over.

9. The military and real physical security will make a difference.

My partner is a former Border Patrol Agent and can tell you it's a whole other world down there. It's purely ridiculous to think that we should make it even more lucrative for
companies that hire illegal aliens and to keep the border as it is.

What the aliens and their corrupt/misguided supporters want is AMNESTY. They want to stay in this nation and they want to keep sucking it dry and without following the rules and without standing in line, they want to get all the benefits you and I have and that our ancestors worked so hard to establish.

Think about this. According to Bush's desire, he would legalize 20-30 million folks,
that would then allow them to bring in approximately another 60 million people (through relative visas) so in a period of a couple of years our population would go from 300 million to 400 million folks. Also then that would create a tide of more folks coming in thinking that they will get amnesty as well.

Reagan tried something similar in the 1980s and it DIDN'T WORK .. it put us in the fiasco where we are now.

We need to do something and securing the Border is possible, Deporting many (not all)
of the Illegal Aliens is costly BUT POSSIBLE. It can be done.

Then we will have to think of a real solution to those who are here and not removable.

But right now we have to stop the flood of folks and we have to get rid of a lot of folks.

It's a shame many folks want to play the "race card" or "social justice card" on this.

I support this bill (link above) and I support even tougher immigration legislation.

This is the big problem, IT IS PRACTICAL. We already legislate and spend money we don't have as a nation, why stop now? Manpower, that's easy as well, you have the Agents, National Guard, Homeland Security Agents, and you can authorize local law enforcement to assist in the process. That is practical.

I agree, the employers thing has not been done. Except for the recent IFCO Systems Case, when you take away the jobs these folks will go somewhere else. It can be done . .

When we stop believing that the solutions are practical then we have already surrendered our nation to these Criminals.

Also, this isn't a racial issue, this isn't a Black vs. Brown issue, this is an AMERICAN ISSUE. We need to right the course of our nation