Superheroic mythologies

Hawksmoor

Amazing Spiderfan
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The town time forgot
Having done a course on Heroic Age (ancient Norse, Viking and Old English) Poetry recently, I learned a lot about heroics and heroes.

The first documented in this tradition was Saint Christopher, the man who lifted the child Jesus across a stream; he commented that he had never lifted a boy so heavy, and the reason for that was that he had carried, for that brief moment, the collective weight of the world's sins.

The second, as far as we know, was Beowulf, the fictional Geatish warrior, who wielded the strength of thirty men in each palm, and in whom the blood of giants flowed (conjecture, true, but well-founded given his described stature and abilities).

There were, of course, many more before, ranging from the demigod Hercules, rewarded for his valour and might, or Prometheus, the anti-hero who stole fire from the Gods to aid the weak humanity.

Nowadays, the mythology is a little more complex; we have gods; demigods; aliens; humans enhanced by magic, metal or science; we have a plethora of heroes, in all tones of morality, from nearly as black as the evil they fight (Batman, Wolverine), to shining white moral hightowers (Captain America, Superman). We have all manner of shades of power, and ability.

My question is: why? Why have humans always needed the heroes, fictional protectors whose feats go beyond that of mere mortals? Why, as far back as documented civilization goes, have humans tried to create these fictional paragonic beings, whether it be in the physical, intellectual, or moral (but only rarely all three)?

Personally, I like to think it is because humanity, defined as the individual, the group, the mass culture, all simultaneously, lives in stories. We, as a species, invented narrative, and now need to find it within our lives; in the day-to-day, this need manifests in our fascination with coincidence, cliché, even religion (but this isn't the topic to go into that). Perhaps we need the stories, allegorical that they are, on at least some level, to remind ourselves of the divergence of humanity, and what it is to be human.

How about you guys?
 
I like your reasoning Hawk. Personally I think that humanity as a whole looks towards a hero or leader because the general populus doesnt think of its self as able to be a hero or lead a group of people. This is mainly due to the emotions we have like Fear, most people are naturally afraid of messing up and being a hero means that you have the potential to mess up on a large scale. Also humanity is a naturally lazy speicies, constantly looking to make life easy on ourselves. Its actually something that we are seem more and more in comics today, many heros like superman or the authority debate with themselves if what they are doing for humanity is right? Should humanity need to take up its own problems? Is a hero doing everything for you going to just make you lazy and more reliant on the hero? I think these questions have alot of bearing on who we should call a hero. In my opinion a hero is someone who not only helps but teaches people to do these things themselves, not only fights large threats but prepairs people in case it could happen again. Many people believe that everything should be handed to them like the preverbial "Ghetto" mentallity. For example, I grew up dirt poor and my father did alot of bad things when I was growing up, when I was around 10 he changed his life around and we moved out of the ghetto. This was because he finally realized mainly due to my mom that things wouldnt just be handed to him, he had to go get them, and the best thing about it was that he didnt just do that and figure it done and he saved me from that life, he taught me that lesson. He showed me that if I want something done I have to go do it, and that life it what you make it. To me thats what being a hero is all about, not only helping but teaching people not to give up and just fall over because there is no one there to do it for them.
 
H
Hawksmoor
Very deep.
Hawksmoor said:
The second, as far as we know, was Beowulf, the fictional Geatish warrior, who wielded the strength of thirty men in each palm, and in whom the blood of giants flowed (conjecture, true, but well-founded given his described stature and abilities).

Beowulf is standard reading throughout the High School level, and I was even surprised to find myself reading it in one of my college courses a while ago. Not much really to say on him except that they are going to make the classic talke into a movie... I wonder what type of job they will do on it... it will be interesting to see how they handle it:nod: 3

Hawskmoor said:
Nowadays, the mythology is a little more complex; we have gods; demigods; aliens; humans enhanced by magic, metal or science; we have a plethora of heroes, in all tones of morality, from nearly as black as the evil they fight (Batman, Wolverine), to shining white moral hightowers (Captain America, Superman). We have all manner of shades of power, and ability.

On this, I'm going to recommend one of my favorite books (you know I have a million :p ) But this is actually by one of my all-time favorite authors, Neil Gaiman. The book is called "American Gods" and if follows the tale of a man by the name of Shadow who gets hired by a "Mr. Wednesday" as a sort-of personal assistant..... The key basis of the book is all of the old gods carried over here by our immigrant ancestors are still alive... they are old and not as powerful as they used to be, but they are still around. the old gods are facing a new threat of extenction by the new American Gods (credit card, computer, etc.) The fun part of this book is the vast past knowledge of ancient mythology that Gaiman brings together... he spans out across the anciet wold and take a little bit from each civilization, so he doesn't stay truly African or Roman or Greek or Norse.... there are many fansites to this book out there that like to go over all the people mentioned in the book and they try to figure out the Gods Gaiman mentions that he doesn't exprescelly say who they are. Today in fact, Neil Gaiman has released a sequal to this book called "Anasi Boys" which follows the tale of the African Spider God Anasi's offspring.

American Gods @ Barnes and Nobel said:
Gaiman's hero is a troubled ex-convict named, appropriately, Shadow. When we first meet him, Shadow is serving a three-year sentence for aggravated assault. Just days before his parole takes effect, Shadow's wife, Laura, dies in a grotesque automobile accident. Alone and adrift, Shadow signs on as driver and bodyguard for an enigmatic grifter who calls himself, simply, Wednesday.
Wednesday, we learn, is a diminished, Americanized incarnation of the Norse god Odin. He is one of a vast pantheon of transplanted gods carried to the New World in the minds and hearts of the endless waves of immigrants. Like most of his fellow gods, Odin/Wednesday has been largely forgotten, replaced by the gods of television, technology, and other icons of a changing world. With Shadow's assistance, Wednesday takes steps to organize these displaced deities, to lead them in a war to the death with the gods of the new Millennium.
American Gods tells the story of that war, and of the hidden personal agendas that lie beneath it. It also tells the story of Shadow's discovery -- and gradual reclamation -- of his own divided soul. Part road novel, part bildungsroman, part revisionist mythology, the narrative ranges across the American landscape, from the magical roadside attraction called The House on the Rock to a Wisconsin town whose picture-perfect surface conceals an ancient, grisly secret. It also takes behind the scenes of the mundane, everyday world, and introduces a credible gallery of gods, demons, and ordinary humans, some of them living, some dead. Like all such extravagant epics, American Gods is -- as Gaiman clearly acknowledges -- a vast, multi-colored metaphor that has much to say about our ongoing need for meaning and belief and about the astonishing creative power of the human imagination. The result is an elegant, important novel that illuminates our world -- and the various worlds that surround it -- with wit, style, and sympathetic intelligence, and stands as one of the benchmark achievements in a distinguished, constantly evolving career. (Bill Sheehan)
 
H
Hawksmoor
Good recommendation, and nice reply.
Some very intersting perspectives expressed here.

Personally, I like to think it is because humanity, defined as the individual, the group, the mass culture, all simultaneously, lives in stories. We, as a species, invented narrative, and now need to find it within our lives; in the day-to-day, this need manifests in our fascination with coincidence, cliché, even religion (but this isn't the topic to go into that). Perhaps we need the stories, allegorical that they are, on at least some level, to remind ourselves of the divergence of humanity, and what it is to be human.

I don't think narratives as you've described exist to remind us of what it is to be human. Rather, I believe stories such as Beowulf, The Iliad, the Cattle Raid of Cooley and so on have existed for so long because they are entertaining. I don't mean to detract from the profoundness of the aforementioned works and others of their like, so allow me to elaborate a bit.

I'm not saying that classic poems and tales were the modern equivalent of popcorn movies at the times they were read aloud to people. Rather, I believe they are entertaining because the heroes explore so many facets of of human nature and regardless of how powerful or grand they appear to be, ultimately have their own flaws. But that they are flawed is the point, as these stories demonstrate to the listener/reader that though we will always be flawed, humanity is capable of great things.

So to me, these stories do not remind us what it means to be human but rather, what is so great about being human. While many of the heroes admittedly have powers or abilities that no real human has ever been able to possess, the possibility that we can evolve or become something greater than we are has and always will be there.

I do believe that many of the stories explore the human condition and can then serve to remind us of what it means to be human. I simply differ in the overall intent of the aforementioned works. :)
 
H
Hawksmoor
Nice line of thinking...
Firstly I'd like to say that I hate how the mythologies are re-written in comics even though I am a Thor Fan... The writers dance around the mythologies and never truly address them.

In my life the only time they truly addressed a Mythological issue was Ragnarok and I still maintain that THAT was one of the greatest stories ever written in Comic book format.

As for the need for heroes partly because we need and want something to aspire to and the other side is that we need faith that rising up and above our limitations is possible. So we don't feel so helpless.
 
Part of the reason that external mythologies don't translate particularly well into comics is because the comics and their characters need to have their own mythologies, and such an arrangement would always cause a clash, like hammering a square blue peg into a round green hole.
 
Not really take Supreme powers The Power Princess could fit into her mythology. All a writer would need to do is stick to one mythology and base the history of Earth to it. Then they could base the future developements of the planet around said Mythology.

I'm telling you we could write it.
 
When I said "external mythologies", I was talking about such pre-existing mythologies, like Thor or Hercules, being shoved in a rough-and-ready manner into the comics world. Whilst there will be much of the original hero there, something is bound to be lost in the translation, as the value system that the original hero worked on is in some part subsumed by the value system of the comics universe as a whole.
 
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