Sex and Submission

[DonDaddyD]

Now this one you need a real open mind (Anchovy I expect you to post! You too Arion!)

Another thought of mine spinning out of the conference call yesterday was Women and their "role" when having sex.

Do Men and Women have an instinctive role in the bedroom

Most Women want "a good seeing to" (weigh that up as you will), ultimately that involves the Man taking charge of things in the bedroom and giving it too the Women. No matter how you look at this or how sex is intiated ultimately the man is the "Top" or the giver and Woman becomes the taker.

Now this is initially going to come across as hugely sexist but try to look past the male supremecy within the question. I'm not trying to promote male supremacy, as most of you now know I like things to be equal in the bedroom - it rarely is the case.

So ultimately for all the ultra feminist dominant women on this board who will never bow to any Man, in the bedroom do you naturally become submissive?

If so doesn't it make the 'dominant female' thing seem futile if ultimately you have to and will instinctivly submit to a Man in one of the most intimate and vulnerable moments?

(This is just something I've always wondered, I'm interested in a Woman's perspective of this view. As a Man I don't see Women as submissive too me but I'm trying to look at it from a Woman's perspective on how the above situation may be interpreted).

 

[Anchovy]

Good job, Lawrence. Get ready for Farrah to open a six-pack o' whoop-ass on you. Lol.

Personally speaking, I'm uncomfortable "taking charge" as it were most of the time (yet another good reason to break up with Jackass. He wasn't much of a take-charge guy and when you've got two submissive people in the bed, not a lot gets done, lol) But I tend to think of it more as my personal preference and not necessarily something to be applied to women across the board. Obviously there are women out there who ARE more dominant (than me, and than their partner). Now the question I would ask there, is it because that's just their personal preference or because they're rejecting traditional sexual roles? Are those two things mutually exclusive? Can a woman reject those roles because it's her preferance? Can it be her preferance because she rejects those roles?

Whoa. Word problems.

 

[Arion]

Hmm not sure how to get my views across without sounding a bit simple.
I'm someone who enjoys the mix and match,add variety&have new dynamics involved in the bedroom.
So basically what I'm trying to say is that-I like to be submissive and yet be 'on top' as well.I don't feel that anything is being taken from me as I let myself become submissive.At the same time even though I thoroughly enjoy be the dominating party-I do not always get a kiick or power boost rush through me and think "yes you are not in control"..now mind I said not always

 

[Rampage]

As a guy I like it when a woman takes charge. It really shows her desire for me and it adds a spice to the situation. I can handle dominance, but it honestly is not required at all times. The point to me is to please my partner, make her have multiple orgasms, go last and bask in it with her until round two...

 

[ZorCrow]

SEX really depends on the male and female equally.

The male usually "takes charge" because we are the ones who have to
achieve and maintain erection status. Men also are seen to have always to be the one causing the most "action" in the bedroom through our physical motion.

The man is taught by women and by society to take charge. Look at the term we use for sexual intercourse or aggressive and passionate sexual intercourse

"nail" "hammer" "stroked" "banged" "hit" "tapped"

during all these motions a strong and firm device motions away at the receiving device.

We have mechanilized sex, and even though women "take charge" it's the design that man's motion finishes it.

Their is a lot of pressure on men sexually, you never hear about women being impotent or "premature" in the bedroom.

Therefore the power goes to men in the bedroom . . . many women stay with garbage men because they are endowed and perform well sexually.

Again, advantage men . .

 

[Black Widow]

Leave it to Crow to turn this into an arguement about male dominance-- which is really a tangent to what is REALLY being asked.

FIRST of all.... "nail" "hammer" "banged" "hit" and "tapped" are all JUVENILE terms that MALES use to assert their machismo over the women they bed.

Stroked can be argued either way... if you ask me... its a rather soft [feminine, even] term, ESPECIALLY when put next to your other choice adverbs.

But that's neither here nor there, really. What YOU are essentially saying is that power BELONGS to men as far as sexual relations go. I couldn't DISAGREE more. while men ARE expected of certain things... SO ARE WOMEN... which really makes the arguement obsolete.

What's being ASKED here is whether or not WOMEN still ENJOY surrendering-- most specifically those of us who PRIDE ourselves on being independent, EQUAL peers to the men around us.

As a woman persuing a career in a predominately MALE profession, I could go on for hours talking both sides of the river here. Around my peers, I'm KNOWN to hold my own with the guys around me-- and I've even lit into one or two who made the unwise decision of talking down to me... so most are aware that I'm not afraid to make waves and bust chops when I have to... and BECAUSE of that... most everyone gives me my credit where its due.. and the respect I deserve. I've been told before that I'm somewhat of a controllist.... and its true. I like to be very much in control of every aspect of my life that I can. I am responsible for everything I do. I feel indescribably WIERD if I'm not driving the car I'm in-- and even wierder in the backseat-- and just look at what I do for a living... its controlling to the very nature of the job and MOST pilots are dominating and controlling.

That said, we can look at how I approach sex.... which is, I think, a little peculiar. You tell me. I should tell you that I don't REALLY view sex as being about POWER... which is probably why I don't at all mind 'surrendering'. in my past relationships, I know I've had as active a libido as my partner did... and can speculate that I initiated 50-60% of sexual encounters... And while I THOUROUGHLY enjoy being on top [and that is, I believe, my default position of choice, so far], I find it incredibly exciting when my partner TAKES control-- and when that happens... I have no reservations about surrendering 'control' to my man and dont really see it so much as submission... rather, I love 'a good seeing to'.

Perhaps its a subconscious desire to test my own personal inner strength-- ergo, can I allow him to 'take control' without feeling like I lost some battle?

Anchovy raised some good questions... and for that matter, how much [and in what way] do 'traditional sexual roles' affect the way either gender views sex?

 

[DonDaddyD]

Kate wrote: - First names isn't that just so cool!
is it because that's just their personal preference or because they're rejecting traditional sexual roles?

Is it even possible for a truly dominant person to have a preference by their very nature?

Can or should a truly dominant person ever submit to anyone at any time? Yet during sex we see the most dominant of Women becoming submissive. (So if they refuse to I'd say they are rejecting a sexual role). And I question is it choice or do they have to? The power plays (initiating sex) aside, it still comes down to 'Woman wants it and the Man gives it or Man wants it and woman takes it.' If you look at how we have sex physically (the sheer dimensions of it), Men do have to take charge in most positions if not alll with the exception of 'woman on top' and even then that can easily adjusted. But then that is my shaped veiw of sex from a Man's perspective.

Even the fan favourite Doggy Style offers nothing in the way of physical 'equality' in the bedroom, much rather giving the dominant role completely too the man. By rights NO dominant woman should enjoy or partake in this position because of what it visually and mentally symbolises (In fact two ex-girlfriends of mine gave me that same explanation for not wanting to do it, as it made them feel like holes and nothing more). Yet ironically there is no equal opposite postion for a Woman to perform on a Man naturally. Within that I also ask ultimately do woman have a choice but to be submissive in the bedroom? If they do have a choice what is it?

Now the more balanced of us will obviously find an initial fault in this, I'm an easy going guy, I like submitting and letting a Woman have complete and utter control over me. Equally I like to be the boss and take complete control of her, I cannot divide it into percentage it all depends on my mood. But even then when submitting too any of my ex's and allowing them to be dominant the minute they say 'fuck me' or 'I want you to have sex with me' (or words to that effect) the roles are reversed, whereas I would say 'I want to fuck you' or 'I'm going to fuck you' but I as a man never get 'fucked'.

Do you see where I'm going with this? A retrospective question would be am I as a Man in the bedroom ever truly submissive?

Again I'm not talking superiorty, within the dominant and submissive roles in the bedroom both can still be equal emotionallu, the difference is the roles each person takes up physically. Only this time it isn't about Men or Women being smarter, stronger or whatever this is just down to the way in which we are designed to have an enjoy sex.

 

[ZorCrow]

Good Thoughts DD . . . women know they want a man in charge in the bedroom and in life.

 

[Karma]

allright...since apparently Anchovy and DDD like to BAIT me with these kinds of threads << has a whip with BOTH their names on it hidden behind her back>> :fdevil:

AS a DOMINANT woman, when i want sex, I will initiate it. Make no bones about it...when i want pleasure, i KNOW how to get it. But it takes a certain kind of man to handle me doing things as i do. For one thing, I LIKE being on top. I like giving commands, I like playing rough (nails on the back, smacking, verbal taunting if he isnt doing it "hard enough" LOL).

The FUN part is when a man can TAKE what i'm doing and then sometimes even SURPRISE ME and one up me. think of the scene in Basic Instinct when Michael Douglas and Sharon Stone when back to her place...and she seduced HIM...and she was clearly the one in charge..but at some point he turned the TABLES on her and made SURE that he gave it to HER just as good. She even looked surprised and protested in a way...but she never "totally" gave in and they BOTH experienced a mixture of pleasure and pain.

for ME...the pleasure is ALWAYS made SWEETER by a little bit of pain.

I am NOT submissive, nor do i WAIT for what i want....and I make it know that things are going to be done my way....but if the man I'm with is able to enjoy that with me and knows that my ultimate goal is HIS pleasure as well as mine..then he will know what to do and how to roll with it and we BOTH will enjoy ourselves.


and FYI: for those that seem to think women are AUTOMATICALLY submissive during sex and sexual interactions...you need to get out more.

 

[DonDaddyD]

Selfish much? :whistle:

The only thing I do get what your saying Spells you never seem to let go of the leash but I have to put it like this:

AS a DOMINANT woman, when i want sex, I will initiate it. Make no bones about it...when i want pleasure, i KNOW how to get it. But it takes a certain kind of man to handle me doing things as i do. For one thing, I LIKE being on top. I like giving commands, I like playing rough (nails on the back, smacking, verbal taunting if he isnt doing it "hard enough" LOL).

Look at the bit in bold, the wording, if HE isn't doing it hard enough. So despite everything else he is doing the giving and your taking. Personally I would have thought the provider the giver was the one ultimately incharge.

Also as far as I know there is no postition that doesn't place the Man in charage IF he is the one doing the giving.

(Jeez do all Woman like it hard? After Spells rendition, I may have to make the thread what type of Sex do you like.....)

 

[Karma]

how am i "selfish" when i said my ultimate goal is HIS satisfaction (which will help me reach mine?) and furthermore..if i'm RIDING then obviously ive got to be the one GIVING the right kind of movement in order for him to like it.

and just because a woman is on the BOTTOM doesnt mean she has to "give in" and take it and just LAY THERE...you can still MOVE with your partner in a way that allows him to get deeper inside..or you can lock your legs around HIS and brace your back so that he DOESNT have the satisfaction of getting you completely on your back.

 

[Lawless]

What about when a dominate woman, ‘commands’ a man to please her? Doing the ‘work’ doesn’t necessarily equate to being dominate, the act of allowing said man to act/work could also be taken as another form of domination. A woman allowing a man to have intercourse with her is in the end the ultimate act of control. The saying…’that there is no such thing as woman that can’t get laid’…, would probably describe that best. In the end any man that wants intercourse with a woman needs her permission, which grants her ultimate control when you look at it that way. Another analogy would be slavery; if the slave is doing the work then who’s in control or dominate. I don’t look at it as taking charge in the bedroom in so much as being given permission to enjoy each other.

Good question with complex answers.

 

[epitaph]

During sex, i don't like it to be all one way traffic. So both must be the aggresor as well as the submissor. It gives a chance for both show their dominance. I like the roll, as i like to call it. From when the man is top with the woman's legs wrapped around the waist and she rolls him and she goes on top. If you like you can have a game and keep rolling, just be sure not to roll of the bed. The change in dominace during this can really highten the pleasure and its fun for both. Remember, its not stop, drop and roll...thats for fires.

 

[DonDaddyD]

how am i "selfish"

The way you described it, it carried a lot of I am within it, made it appear like the guy has no choice.

Lawless you are right in that a woman has control, I'm questioning the moment when a Man actually engages in intercourse.

For example one of my ex's did a striptease in front of me (she was very much the dominant one in that little game) But the minute she laid down on my bed naked and looked over at me saying nothing, the roles reversed.

Maybe I'm more dominant than I think because even when playing submissive games I like to be naughty and disobey from time to time as to not loose myself completely (I won't be broken). Possibly I'm lookig at this from a dominant mind. Because the minute I'm having sex I'm in control I tend to instigate and I tend to pick the positions....

Epitaph how big is the bed?

When I think about this even more and more I cannot get past the fact that the man is the one that is in charge. When changing positions it has been in my experience that a Woman has never picked me up and placed me somewhere, where as I have quite literally been known to say 'head their, arse their' or if I want to her on the table I've picked her up and put her there.

I dunno I'm just struggling to see how if I'm doing the work too her how am I being submissive....

 

[Black Widow]

Maybe you just tend to date submissive women, Daddy. At least, that's how it seems to me.

I PERSONALLY have NO QUALMS whatsoever about telling my partner HOW and what I want in bed... and to ME, that's where the power comes into play. Farrah makes a very good point, woman on bottom OR top makes no never mind... The sexual act itself can be any which way...but the person calling the SHOTS is the person really in control, no matter WHO is doing the lifting or shoving, if you think about it. I mean, the way you say it, the man does the GIVING and the woman does the TAKING.... but isnt 'TAKING' a rather powerful term itself?

but you have to remember, in my opinions, I consider SEX to be more about gratification and MUTUAL contribution than anything else. In order for it to be any good, BOTH partners should be dedication to making sure the other 'gets theirs'...and as long as THAT is the way of it... sex [at its very core] will never BE about power, imo.

 

[ZorCrow]

SpellBinder,

You sound like a guy, all that hot air bragging.

:zzz:

DDD and the rest . . it always comes down to how the MAN handling things ... we are in charge baby .. .deal with it.

It's a man's world . . .

IT's a man's world . . .

 

[Black Widow]

Crow, instead of incessantly SPAMMING, how about you post something of SUBSTANCE?

 

[Karma]

Crow, instead of incessantly SPAMMING, how about you post something of SUBSTANCE?

that would require him being more than a walking cliche of a male chauvanist PIG. somehow..i dont think that will happen ANYTIME soon.

 

[Lawless]

The way you described it, it carried a lot of I am within it, made it appear like the guy has no choice.

Lawless you are right in that a woman has control, I'm questioning the moment when a Man actually engages in intercourse.

For example one of my ex's did a striptease in front of me (she was very much the dominant one in that little game) But the minute she laid down on my bed naked and looked over at me saying nothing, the roles reversed.

Maybe I'm more dominant than I think because even when playing submissive games I like to be naughty and disobey from time to time as to not loose myself completely (I won't be broken). Possibly I'm lookig at this from a dominant mind. Because the minute I'm having sex I'm in control I tend to instigate and I tend to pick the positions....

Epitaph how big is the bed?

When I think about this even more and more I cannot get past the fact that the man is the one that is in charge. When changing positions it has been in my experience that a Woman has never picked me up and placed me somewhere, where as I have quite literally been known to say 'head their, arse their' or if I want to her on the table I've picked her up and put her there.

I dunno I'm just struggling to see how if I'm doing the work too her how am I being submissive....

OK granted that 'directing' may be a dominating trait but is the act of intercourse itself. I think everyone will agree it is for the most part aggressive but it can also be a reaction (i.e. a spasm), and thereby submissive.

In another one of my not quite the same thing analogies. Slavery is a condition by which one party holds dominion over another, however it is the slaves that do the work so who is truly being dominate. Other than a few Overseers slave live and worked unsupervised in the US pre-Civil War yet they did the task they were told to do. While the Master lived in comparative comfort. So while the Masters had the chains and were aggressive in maintainin their 'authority' it was the slaves that really got things done since they were the work force. So I must reinterate that work doesn't necessarily equate to dominance.

Think about the sex act itself especially if you initiate sex are you dominating the situation or is the woman in question humoring you and giving you a chance to earn her company by pleasing her. If a in the act the woman tells you to touch her wherever and however if you comply then whose being dominate. And if said man doesn't perform well, it he that must either face ridicule or make sure he does better next time or sooner or later they will hear about it. In society as in nature it is often the male of the species that jumps through hoops for the affections of the female. The very act of having to prove oneself as worthy, even in proving one's dominance/aggression to appease or show worth to another is also a submissive act. Sex itself in a healthy relationship on many levels requires both a submissive and dominate ratio in order to even take place.

 

[DonDaddyD]

Maybe you just tend to date submissive women, Daddy. At least, that's how it seems to me.

No it isn't that. I like strong women, I have [had...lol] a BIG sex drive, I like to experiment in the bed, I like women with the confidence to explore sex with me.

but isnt 'TAKING' a rather powerful term itself?

I was thinking the same as well to be honest.

Ultimately I think it depends on how the person percieves themselves in the bedroom that defines their role.

but you have to remember, in my opinions, I consider SEX to be more about gratification and MUTUAL contribution than anything else. In order for it to be any good, BOTH partners should be dedication to making sure the other 'gets theirs'...and as long as THAT is the way of it... sex [at its very core] will never BE about power, imo.

I agree with you, to a point which is why I was just focusing on the physical side of things. A man pressing a woman up against a wall, I'd say would suggest (albeit) visually that the Man is the dominant party during that type of intercourse. Then I started thinking of all the positions I know of and I would say that the vast majority of them lean towards the Man being the more dominant.

However I can see this from Spellbinder's view as well (I can't explain it without describing it).