Homosexuality
- Thread starter Foxfire
- Start date
Ooh Mat, open-minded, articulate AND a good dancer? Mmm-hmmm! 
Yeah, baby. Gotta love that. Tell me you've got freckles or red hair or tattoo(s) and I'm yours! (God help me if you've got all of the above..not to mention your obviously superior taste in films. Yes, I saw the Boondock Saints listed FIRST in your favorite movies. Go post in my Boondock Saints thread.)
Anyway, had the unique experience of french-kissing a gay man today. Interesting. Figured this thread might be a place to tell THAT story. He had never 'made out with' or french-kissed a girl. I obliged. It was a little weird. It was actually weirder than making out with my girlfriends in some odd way...hmm, wonder why...Maybe because I knew for absolute certain that he wasn't attracted to me, and I've never had that during a kiss before.
Yeah, baby. Gotta love that. Tell me you've got freckles or red hair or tattoo(s) and I'm yours! (God help me if you've got all of the above..not to mention your obviously superior taste in films. Yes, I saw the Boondock Saints listed FIRST in your favorite movies. Go post in my Boondock Saints thread.) Anyway, had the unique experience of french-kissing a gay man today. Interesting. Figured this thread might be a place to tell THAT story. He had never 'made out with' or french-kissed a girl. I obliged. It was a little weird. It was actually weirder than making out with my girlfriends in some odd way...hmm, wonder why...Maybe because I knew for absolute certain that he wasn't attracted to me, and I've never had that during a kiss before.
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Alright, this thread if getting way off topic. It's encouraged to express your opinion on this boards, but everyone needs to remember to respect each other's faiths and opinions. Yes people may get heated about a certain topic, and say things in the heat of the moment, but let us all please remember to respect everyone's opinions and respect each other.
I'm closing this thread for a little while so everyone can cool down.
I'm closing this thread for a little while so everyone can cool down.
Anchovy said:Ooh Mat, open-minded, articulate AND a good dancer? Mmm-hmmm!
Anyway, had the unique experience of french-kissing a gay man today. Interesting. Figured this thread might be a place to tell THAT story. He had never 'made out with' or french-kissed a girl. I obliged. It was a little weird. It was actually weirder than making out with my girlfriends in some odd way...hmm, wonder why...Maybe because I knew for absolute certain that he wasn't attracted to me, and I've never had that during a kiss before.
*laughs*
Sorry, no red hair, freckles or tattoos (though I want to get the Chinese symbol for Honor/Dignity tattood on my right wrist). I *can* speak with a pretty good irish accent and I love Guinness, though!
French kissing can be difficult when you're doing it with someone you find mutually attractive. Too much tongue, not enough tongue, etc. I can't imagine it being anything short of weird if it's with someone you're not attracted to, much less a gay person you know will never be attracted to you.
Dapper Dan
<i>Just A<br>D R E A M E R</i>
Thanks for the book recommendation ZorCrow... I'll definately check and see if the local B&N has it :nod:
Anyways, here are some things for you:
Galatians 3:28, it says that anyone who has been baptised in the name of Christ is no longer Jew or Gentile, Slave or Freeman, or Man or Woman. The final point is the removal of sexuality....
I've seen a lot of people do the whole "God struck down Sodom" becuase there was homesexual sex taken place. If you look at Ezekiel 16:48-49 we discover that the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, but not helping the poor and need when one is rich and prosperous themselves. Yes, the men of Sodom attempted to sexually abuse their visitor's at Lot's house, but to my knowledge gang-rape isn't a major part of gay sex....
You can't help who you fall in love with.... does it matter that it happens to be between two people of the same sex? Love is love is it not?
The word translated as abomination in Levitcus 18:22 in Ancient Hebrew texts is To'ebah. Going back to what I said about the importance of transulation, this word isn't translated as abomination elsewhere in the Bible, in fact at other points in the Bible, it applies to certain other things. That word applies to pork and to menstruating women among other things. I don't think you wanna tell all the ladies on this board that they are all abominations at a certain time every month...
Romans 1:26-27 refers to idolatry, if you look in the last line, it says men being punished for their false belief, they were eunuch priests and cult prostitutes that Paul was criticising, not homosexuals, in fact homosexuality in our modern sense of the word was scarcely practised in the Ancient world.
====================================================
Anyways, here are some things for you:
Galatians 3:28, it says that anyone who has been baptised in the name of Christ is no longer Jew or Gentile, Slave or Freeman, or Man or Woman. The final point is the removal of sexuality....
Galatians 3:28 said:
I've seen a lot of people do the whole "God struck down Sodom" becuase there was homesexual sex taken place. If you look at Ezekiel 16:48-49 we discover that the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, but not helping the poor and need when one is rich and prosperous themselves. Yes, the men of Sodom attempted to sexually abuse their visitor's at Lot's house, but to my knowledge gang-rape isn't a major part of gay sex....
Ezekiel 16:48-49 said:
Matthew 10:15 said:
Matthew 22:39 said:
You can't help who you fall in love with.... does it matter that it happens to be between two people of the same sex? Love is love is it not?
1 John 4:8 said:
The word translated as abomination in Levitcus 18:22 in Ancient Hebrew texts is To'ebah. Going back to what I said about the importance of transulation, this word isn't translated as abomination elsewhere in the Bible, in fact at other points in the Bible, it applies to certain other things. That word applies to pork and to menstruating women among other things. I don't think you wanna tell all the ladies on this board that they are all abominations at a certain time every month...
Leviticus 18:22 said:
Romans 1:26-27 refers to idolatry, if you look in the last line, it says men being punished for their false belief, they were eunuch priests and cult prostitutes that Paul was criticising, not homosexuals, in fact homosexuality in our modern sense of the word was scarcely practised in the Ancient world.
Romans 1:26-27 said:
====================================================
Actually the reason that most of these holidays exist is because of the Catholic church's endeavor to convert pagan's of the time. It made Christianity all the eaiser to accept if Christianity adopted pagan 'holy days' and then "christianized" them. Of course the easter bunny, santa caluse, etc. are modern fabrications of big business.... there are still several christian undertones to such meaning:nod: I'll go for a big spiel on Halloween later... I have to go take an Industrial/Organizational Psych test now:igitt:Osiris said:
Bane
Mortality
I recently found this link from a mother of a homosexual son: http://www.vermontcivilunion.com/advice/0600.html
It reads:
As the mother of a gay son, I've seen firsthand how cruel and misguided people can be.
Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I've taken enough from you good people.
I'm tired of your foolish rhetoric about the "homosexual agenda" and your allegations that accepting homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of motherhood ever since my children were tiny.
My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay.
He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the other boys. He was called "fag" incessantly, starting when he was 6.
In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn't bear to continue living any longer, that he didn't want to be gay and that he couldn't face a life with no dignity.
You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don't know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn't put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could think, and it's about time you started doing that.
No choice
At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won't get to choose. Whether it is genetic or whether something occurs during a critical time of fetal development, I don't know. I can only tell you with an absolute certainty that it is inborn.
If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it.
For those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-step program, I'm puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you could change it at will?
If that's not the case, then why would you suggest that someone else can?
A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I'll thank you to stop saying that you are speaking for "true Vermonters."
Principles?
You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn't give their lives so that the "homosexual agenda" could tear down the principles they died defending.
My 83-year-old father fought in some of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded the Purple Heart. He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn't the measure of the man.
You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your sensibilities that he should request the right to visit that companion in the hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax laws governing inheritance.
How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of marriage.
You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be thinking human beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.
The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about "those of us who have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing" asks: "What ever happened to the idea of striving . . . to be better human beings than we are?"
Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?
It reads:
As the mother of a gay son, I've seen firsthand how cruel and misguided people can be.
Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I've taken enough from you good people.
I'm tired of your foolish rhetoric about the "homosexual agenda" and your allegations that accepting homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of motherhood ever since my children were tiny.
My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay.
He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the other boys. He was called "fag" incessantly, starting when he was 6.
In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn't bear to continue living any longer, that he didn't want to be gay and that he couldn't face a life with no dignity.
You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don't know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn't put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could think, and it's about time you started doing that.
No choice
At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won't get to choose. Whether it is genetic or whether something occurs during a critical time of fetal development, I don't know. I can only tell you with an absolute certainty that it is inborn.
If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it.
For those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-step program, I'm puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you could change it at will?
If that's not the case, then why would you suggest that someone else can?
A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I'll thank you to stop saying that you are speaking for "true Vermonters."
Principles?
You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn't give their lives so that the "homosexual agenda" could tear down the principles they died defending.
My 83-year-old father fought in some of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded the Purple Heart. He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn't the measure of the man.
You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your sensibilities that he should request the right to visit that companion in the hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax laws governing inheritance.
How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of marriage.
You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be thinking human beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.
The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about "those of us who have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing" asks: "What ever happened to the idea of striving . . . to be better human beings than we are?"
Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?
Dapper Dan
<i>Just A<br>D R E A M E R</i>
Ok, here are a few more things from me....
Homosexuality is not unique in its status as an issue some people use to justify their hatred and/or repression of others. Throughout the history of this country, the world, and the church there have been other issues that were divisive in nature: anti-Sematism, slavery, and female clergy to name a few.
Anti-Sematism:John 7:1 states " After this Jesus went about in Galilee, he would not go about in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him. This passage has been used to "prove" that Jews are evil and plotted the murder of Christ, for which they must be punished. Much of the anti-sematism we have observed in the past and today has been "justified" in the minds of the hate mongors using Biblical passages. The same applies to the topic of homosexuality.
Slavery:As we know, slavery was wide spread in the various stories in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. Many members of the US Congress used Biblical passages in their debates in the 1830s, 40s, and 50s to justify the continued legality of slavery. Today, we would reject such usage of the Bible, because we understand more of God's word. The same applies to the topic of homosexuality.
Women Clergy:Most recently, members of the religious right have used scripture to prevent women from serving in the church. 1 Cor.. 34-35 "As in all churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate as the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." Again, we see the mis-application of Biblical verses to oppress a particular group of people. The same applies to the topic of homosexuality.
Homosexuality is not unique in its status as an issue some people use to justify their hatred and/or repression of others. Throughout the history of this country, the world, and the church there have been other issues that were divisive in nature: anti-Sematism, slavery, and female clergy to name a few.
Anti-Sematism:John 7:1 states " After this Jesus went about in Galilee, he would not go about in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him. This passage has been used to "prove" that Jews are evil and plotted the murder of Christ, for which they must be punished. Much of the anti-sematism we have observed in the past and today has been "justified" in the minds of the hate mongors using Biblical passages. The same applies to the topic of homosexuality.
Slavery:As we know, slavery was wide spread in the various stories in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. Many members of the US Congress used Biblical passages in their debates in the 1830s, 40s, and 50s to justify the continued legality of slavery. Today, we would reject such usage of the Bible, because we understand more of God's word. The same applies to the topic of homosexuality.
Women Clergy:Most recently, members of the religious right have used scripture to prevent women from serving in the church. 1 Cor.. 34-35 "As in all churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate as the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." Again, we see the mis-application of Biblical verses to oppress a particular group of people. The same applies to the topic of homosexuality.
Mark 12:30-31 said:
Whats sad is that many people who believe that God is against homosexuality dont realise what they are saying in essence with that statement, just adding to another reason why I dont follow the church. To say that Homosexuality is against God is to say that god made a mistake in creation. If God is all knowing than he/she would have known homosexuality would come into exisitance. If God wouldnt want this too occur than God would have made this immpossible to happen. Apparently God didnt care so it was allowed. To say that this is wrong in Gods name is to say that God made a mistake in creation which would suggest that God is not all knowing. People need to face facts, that the bible was written by man who claimed to be under the influence of God. If God would have wanted the knowledge to get to everyone why not make us born with it? I for one dont like the idea of putting humanity through tests like faith or not, if your all knowing than you can see what choice I am gonna make regardless of what I do, so if I choose not to than God knew that already which means I was condemed to Sin and as the Church say Hell before I was even born. That makes no sence, why give people freewill if your going to be doing nothing but placing judgment on them? Its like getting a Dog, and not training it not to pee inside but beating it everytime it does. Homosexuality is part of freewill its those individuals choice. The Bible is unimporatant in the issue as simple logic as I have just explains validates Homosexuality. Face it people care not God or God would have made it impossible.
eponinethen
hepo heart tegan, mhm
I agree, this used to annoy me a lot, 'cause I was sort of "coming out" as a christian (long story, my friends aren't religious, no one I know is, and I was for like 6 months, uh) at the same time as I was coming out as gay... Hm, people sort of had a problem with that.. Eventually it ended with me not being a christian anymore.. Ah well..Greatness said:
I don't know what this thread is really about, lol, but I'm probably about 100% gay, and have pretty much always been/known that I was. Well I thought for a while that I might be bi but.. well, I realized pretty quickly that I'm not attracted to any guys at all really.
MaGiCaLjuliet
Unknown
Okay, so a couple of months ago I was walking around campus with my friend who, at the time, I happened to have a little crush on. Completely unknown to me, one of my girl friends had told him that I liked him and this little walk would be one I'd remember for a long time. As we were rounding the third quarter of our lap, he started the topic of one of my other guy friends that he believed to be gay. I laughed and told him that I didn't think so. I always thought of him as a Metrosexual. Then, I decided this was a good question to pose to my walking companion. My words were, "And what is your preference?" He turned to me and said, "Me, Oh, I'm gay." Those words were like lightning in my ears. I swear, I felt my heart stop. I recall the brief falter as I was walking and I quickly tried to recover myself before he noticed. (We've talked about this encounter many times since and believe me, he noticed.)
Despite my obvious disappointment,this was one of the greatest things to ever happen to me. I had always been in favor of the homosexual/bisexual ideals. I do not personally choose it but I have no problem with the people who do.
The funny thing was I had been talking to one of my other friends about how great it would be to have a gay best friend. I guess the way I stumbled upon mine wasn't the greatest of circumstances. But I wouldn't trade the time he and I spend together for all the money in the world. We are literally joined at the hip and my friends tell me all the time that we look like brother and sister~ He's got long hair, so do I and it's relatively the same shade. We have the same body structure and we are always on the lookout for a cute guy here or there. My new dorm faces the athletics field...we're still waiting for the binoculars to come in.
Despite my obvious disappointment,this was one of the greatest things to ever happen to me. I had always been in favor of the homosexual/bisexual ideals. I do not personally choose it but I have no problem with the people who do.
The funny thing was I had been talking to one of my other friends about how great it would be to have a gay best friend. I guess the way I stumbled upon mine wasn't the greatest of circumstances. But I wouldn't trade the time he and I spend together for all the money in the world. We are literally joined at the hip and my friends tell me all the time that we look like brother and sister~ He's got long hair, so do I and it's relatively the same shade. We have the same body structure and we are always on the lookout for a cute guy here or there. My new dorm faces the athletics field...we're still waiting for the binoculars to come in.
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mrfolson
Rising Star
Well first of all, I would like you all to know that I'm a straight male, been a straight for 36yrs now, an if I'm blessed to see thursday the 24th, I will be straight for 37yrs. 
I don't have a problem with gays and lesbians, I have one brother that is bi-sexual, a few cousins who are gay and lesbians. I love them, yes, but I disagree with how they live their lives. Don't get me wrong now, I have no problem with gays or lesbians, as long as they keep to thier boundaries, basically what I'm saying is, we can hang out but don't try to come on to me, and we will be cooler that a fan("New Jack City").
I'm curious though, to know who truly believe in God, because I truly believe in him, I truly fear him, and I know from reading the bible what he Loves an dislikes. I mean you have to respect Zorcrow's beliefs if thats what he truly believes, and Zorcrow will have to respect everyone else beliefs as well, with an open mind. You don't have to like or agree with a certian person's beliefs, but respect goes both ways. So let me ask everyone this, if you are a bible reader, why would you not believe every word the bibles says. Wasn't the scriptures in the bible written by Great men who was inspired by God all mighty. To me, you either believe every word the bible says or you don't believe it at all.
People say and do things to justify the life style they live. I do it alot, I am no exception. I can say that I have many vises that I wish I could kick, but when I try to justify my bad habits, its still not right in God's eye. I believe Spellbinder wrote that the only sin God do not forgive is blasphemy, thats true, that is scripture, also on the same token Zorcrow wrote numerous scriptures down that comes from the bible. My next question is, do we believe what the bible says or not? I do, all 3million plus words of it. Hope I didn't make anyone mad, if so oh well.
I don't have a problem with gays and lesbians, I have one brother that is bi-sexual, a few cousins who are gay and lesbians. I love them, yes, but I disagree with how they live their lives. Don't get me wrong now, I have no problem with gays or lesbians, as long as they keep to thier boundaries, basically what I'm saying is, we can hang out but don't try to come on to me, and we will be cooler that a fan("New Jack City").I'm curious though, to know who truly believe in God, because I truly believe in him, I truly fear him, and I know from reading the bible what he Loves an dislikes. I mean you have to respect Zorcrow's beliefs if thats what he truly believes, and Zorcrow will have to respect everyone else beliefs as well, with an open mind. You don't have to like or agree with a certian person's beliefs, but respect goes both ways. So let me ask everyone this, if you are a bible reader, why would you not believe every word the bibles says. Wasn't the scriptures in the bible written by Great men who was inspired by God all mighty. To me, you either believe every word the bible says or you don't believe it at all.
People say and do things to justify the life style they live. I do it alot, I am no exception. I can say that I have many vises that I wish I could kick, but when I try to justify my bad habits, its still not right in God's eye. I believe Spellbinder wrote that the only sin God do not forgive is blasphemy, thats true, that is scripture, also on the same token Zorcrow wrote numerous scriptures down that comes from the bible. My next question is, do we believe what the bible says or not? I do, all 3million plus words of it. Hope I didn't make anyone mad, if so oh well.
One thing is for certain, I don't believe every word in the Bible is accurate, with good reason, and apparently neither does the Catholic Church these days...(Posted article not long ago). However, I agree on the point that we need to get to a point where we either believe or we don't. I believe after a careful study of the Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) the issue of homosexuality is consistantly regarded as against the will of God. Now it would be wrong for any Jew, Christian, or Muslim to attempt to say otherwise, because that is scripturally inaccurate. However, just because something is against the will of God, that doesnt give us a free pass to shun those whose behavior and or beliefs are contrary to our own. I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but I also believe lying, adultery, stealing, greed, and vanity are sins of equal weight. So, it makes no sense to alienate a person or a group based on their vices when we have our own, therefore just take that stone and throw it in the mirror.
We need to focus on the things that are uniformally taught in these great 3 Monotheistic traditions and that is the Mercy of an Allmighty God is Supreme and superior than His condemnation. For even in our wickedness, He Alone still grants us grace, mercy, and a way to be redeemed.
Salaam
We need to focus on the things that are uniformally taught in these great 3 Monotheistic traditions and that is the Mercy of an Allmighty God is Supreme and superior than His condemnation. For even in our wickedness, He Alone still grants us grace, mercy, and a way to be redeemed.
Salaam
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Hawksmoor
Amazing Spiderfan
I am a majorly unreligious guy...I agree with homosexuality in principle, because I see it as a preference; if it's what you see as your thing, I have no more right to criticise or question than I do if you like a different music genre to me - neither one is my business, after all.